Buy/Sell Forum: "No Posting on behalf"

**jwhtan** · 19-08-2004, 01:28 PM

In view of a recent case where a member was sold a TKL thru this forum by another new member (new nick at least), there's been a discussion on how best we could avoid these scenarios. The opinions of the other moderators who spoke up were all for it. Trading of TKL is strictly prohibited. All known cases of members selling untagged aro will hv their account disabled.

Besides, we've had a really high number of new nicks registration at AF who contributes nothing to any discussion other than just selling. We've decided to try and contain this excessive advertising. The objective of the forum is to facilitate the discussion of arowanas and ornamental fishes. We do not want this forum to be like Singnet Classifieds, Yahoo! Auctions or Ebay. The buy/sell forum is for hobbyist to " turn your unused items into cash" and only for aquaria items.

As of now, we'll be prohibiting all new nicks/members with less than 30 posts counts and less than one month registration to start new threads at this Buy/Sell Forum. Hopefully this will discourage those who treat AF as a bulletin board solely to advertise, and those who think they can get away, continue selling TKLs, just by registering new nicks. There are also the sellers who bring in mass sale fishes/feeders/services who just do not want to post at commercial despite the sticky put up by Alvin Koh, as usual claiming ignorance. I hv till now, leave the individual species forums buy/sell open for all. If the abuse persists, then they will also be restricted.
There is obviously no best way to please and accommodate everybody. And unfortunately some genuine members will be affected by this change. We're however, not closing off all the avenues and the individual forum buy/sell is still available. However, if the problem we now face is just shifted there, they will then be restricted as well.

All those threads that are started " ON BEHALF OF FRIEND " will be closed. We've just had too many complaints where disputes arises when posting on behalf and thereafter threadstarter disclaims all responsibility under the excuse they are just doing their friend a favour. These are all deemed as trying to circumvent the rules. Offenders will have their access to the buy/sell forum restricted.

Any flouting of our guidelines will result in first a deduction in your rep points to zero or -10 points whichever is lower and recalcitrant offenders will have their account disabled.

Regards
John

**jwhtan** · 19-08-2004, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustin

This is a good one... but i feel its kinda harsh for 50 posts... maybe 20 would be sufficient. I remember when I first joined arofanatics i was quite desperate to look for second hand stuffs but wasnt really visiting this site often...

anyway just my 2 cents worth...

cheers!

the avenue is not entirely closed .. u can post replies when someone is selling, or wtb and u can also pm, just no starting of new threads to advertise

Limsteel · 19-08-2004, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwhtan

....

Dear John, I am more concerned by those Forum guys that just post "upz", "smilies" or "Parrot post" (repeat the ads) Some "chit chat" or "Hi jack" people's thread....

Should take action against these forum too... most threads started Right but ended up with "Upz", "

"... Private Chit chat session... Etc...

Everything here requires bandwidth, and it isn't free... Other then legal and unhappy issue... please consider the $$$ issue.

50post will encorage forumers to hit the quota! then end up with more rubbish posting!

**jwhtan** · 19-08-2004, 06:31 PM

The buy/sell do not hv post counts .. why ? cos we want to eradicate the upzz .. like i mention in the first post, i'm sure some genuine members may be affected .. suggest an alternative, instead of " it's unfair to me " which is the lesser of the two evils .. ? another thing ? is AF just a bulletin board for buy/sell to u all ? or watever u hv read and learn thus far, u will impart to those newbies who join recently ?

**jwhtan** · 19-08-2004, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aromatix

Dear John & Mods

Firstly, it's a fantastic job that you guys have done so far!
And congratulations on what Arofanatics.com have become. You don't need awards to know that this is a thriving, bustling marketplace for like-minded hobbyists. By marketplace, I don't mean buying & selling only. We also talk c*ck, lim kopi, exchange ideas, socialise etc etc. I have made many new friends here.

However, to keep this marketplace fresh and exciting, you should not erect barriers to discourage new members. Just like some bros/sis here, when I was new I was looking for many things/fish here. In fact, arofanatics.com became my daily addiction !!!!
To impose a min 50 posts is penalising people who love this place for what it was - free-wheeling & dealing and exchange of views/ideas. There'll be run-ins among members and there'll be speculators/pirates as in every marketplace you will meet all kinds of character.

You have done an excellent job by providing a forum where those with initiative will learn not to fall victim to schemes out there. All they have to do is do a bit of search or ask some questions. The very fact that this TKL case is highlighted and given so much airing has brought about increased awareness to this issue.

This is exactly the Arofans Spirit that makes this place so unique. If someone feels there's injustice, he/she brings it out. Let the bro's lesson be ours too.

I fear if restrictions are imposed, the repercussions will be more far-reaching and counter-productive than what your good intentions have originally wanted.

We're clear abt these concerns. And we're not closing every single avenue. Does a member join AF just to sell his goods ? This amendment takes away the privilege to post new threads, which in recent times, AF hv experience excessive advertising and quite a bit of dubious ones. It does not take away his privilege to reply to threads which he can always do when he needs to buy anything or the use of private message. On TKLs, do we always hv to wait till someone gets conned before learning another lesson and the whole process repeats itself again to another unsuspecting member in future. I agree abt the freewheeling in any market place. Our point is, we dun want AF to be a market place. Buy/Sell is supposed to be a subforum, categorised under Others, but it has since taken over and become the dominant forum in terms of views, visits and posts and excessive advertising by traders which is not wat we had intended all along.

rgds
john

bsplenden · 19-08-2004, 07:00 PM

it is hard to have a win-win situation in such cases. please do remember that all our moderators need to work too. at such, they cannot spend all their time online looking out for people who breaks the rules... it is up to us, people who make use of the forum, to actually follow the regulations.

however, not everyone is just as considerate as many of our brothers here (i believe)... there are always a few people who breaks the rules (and that is the reason why there are rules). to discourage such people from posting irrelevant stuff for sale at the buy/sell forum, the moderators have to resort to such measures, as mentioned before, they are not available 24 hours a day to close such threads. hence, to help reduce their workload, they have to impose such restrictions.

i do understand how you feel when you are "punished" for things that you did not commit at all, but think of the forum as a community, for a tolerance of 50 posts, you will be bringing the rest of the members a lot of convenience. furthermore, when you have got 50 posts, you too will see less of nonsense threads, while having the priviledge of using this forum and its buy/sell section.

meanwhile, you can post the things you have for sale at your signature. i am sure many bros and sis here DO read the signature, cos u do hear comments like "I like your signature" and stuff like that.

i am sure that you too, will like to eradicate the problem of irrelevant postings, and that you, a sincere fish hobbyist, will gain your 50 posts soon. think about it, 50 posts is actually easy to gain, just by contributing your knowledge to any of the forums (and there are so many of them).

19-08-2004, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuay5

This forum was first created as a platform for aro hobbyist to share their knowledge and experience, not as a marketplace. The buy/sell was created to compliment this forum, please dun take it for granted and treat AF as marketplace CFS(Cyber fish shop)

Brother, I agree with you that this is the place to share knowledge and experiences in keep aros and fishes. Knowlege is gain through reading the experiences that have been pen down by fellow brothers of this forum.

How should the buy/sell section be treated? Is it not a marketplace where bros trade/buy stuff that they require for their hobby?. it is place where a willing seller and buyer meet. Come now, don't be naive over this. If it is a fish, call it a fish not something else.

aromatix · 19-08-2004, 07:19 PM

Bro John, I appreciate the intricate line you and yr team have to take. And I know there's no simple blanket solution for all.
Maybe I did not communicate my definition of a marketplace well enough.
I don't just mean buy/sell/exchange when I say free-wheeling but also free-wheeling of ideas, views, critiques, etc etc
From my own experience, the freest markets are also those with the least restrictions (once again I dun mean commercials transactions only).
eg 1 the USA which speaks for itself (its world hegemony is another issue)
eg 2 China - the power that be realise that as their country opens up, they need to lift restrictions. I can see China becoming a free market if this trend continues.
While the examples I give may not seem relevant, think about it deeper.
Think BIG. This is what your arofanatics.com has become in case you've not realised it yet. Good work

bsplenden · 19-08-2004, 07:31 PM

hmm... why not think of it this way... this is a forum. we are given a place to share our interest, and yet we don't pay a single cent. this, is a priviledge. so we cannot take the buy/sell forum for granted. so if people want to use it, first contribute to our fish keeping community by posting 50 posts, and you get the added bonus of using the buy/sell forum. fair isn't it???

just like you want to set up a stall to sell your things, you have to first pay the rent. (AND DO NOTE THAT ILLEGAL HAWKERS ARE NOT ALLOWED...

)

19-08-2004, 08:04 PM

the admins would have anticipated all the difficulties everytime they administer new rulings to the forums, as such, this case is also the same,thus i believe they would have come up wif a solution prior to making such decision.

imo, it'll be unfair for the admins and their team if we members do not appreciate their hard-work.

i believe despite all unhappiness amonst new members who wishes to buy/sell or trade here, it's indeed a good move to have such ruling against LFS or any traders who come in guise of hobbyists & start to treat AF as a marketplace, using it as a platform only to sell their stuff.

all in all, i'll like to appauld the admin for doing such a good job in maintaining this forum as the best fish-keeping forum.

19-08-2004, 01:28 PM	#1
jwhtan Barney Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 9,118	Buy/Sell Forum: "No Posting on behalf" In view of a recent case where a member was sold a TKL thru this forum by another new member (new nick at least), there's been a discussion on how best we could avoid these scenarios. The opinions of the other moderators who spoke up were all for it. Trading of TKL is strictly prohibited. All known cases of members selling untagged aro will hv their account disabled. Besides, we've had a really high number of new nicks registration at AF who contributes nothing to any discussion other than just selling. We've decided to try and contain this excessive advertising. The objective of the forum is to facilitate the discussion of arowanas and ornamental fishes. We do not want this forum to be like Singnet Classifieds, Yahoo! Auctions or Ebay. The buy/sell forum is for hobbyist to " turn your unused items into cash" and only for aquaria items. As of now, we'll be prohibiting all new nicks/members with less than 30 posts counts and less than one month registration to start new threads at this Buy/Sell Forum. Hopefully this will discourage those who treat AF as a bulletin board solely to advertise, and those who think they can get away, continue selling TKLs, just by registering new nicks. There are also the sellers who bring in mass sale fishes/feeders/services who just do not want to post at commercial despite the sticky put up by Alvin Koh, as usual claiming ignorance. I hv till now, leave the individual species forums buy/sell open for all. If the abuse persists, then they will also be restricted. There is obviously no best way to please and accommodate everybody. And unfortunately some genuine members will be affected by this change. We're however, not closing off all the avenues and the individual forum buy/sell is still available. However, if the problem we now face is just shifted there, they will then be restricted as well. All those threads that are started " ON BEHALF OF FRIEND " will be closed. We've just had too many complaints where disputes arises when posting on behalf and thereafter threadstarter disclaims all responsibility under the excuse they are just doing their friend a favour. These are all deemed as trying to circumvent the rules. Offenders will have their access to the buy/sell forum restricted. Any flouting of our guidelines will result in first a deduction in your rep points to zero or -10 points whichever is lower and recalcitrant offenders will have their account disabled. Regards John

19-08-2004, 06:31 PM	#4
jwhtan Barney Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 9,118	The buy/sell do not hv post counts .. why ? cos we want to eradicate the upzz .. like i mention in the first post, i'm sure some genuine members may be affected .. suggest an alternative, instead of " it's unfair to me " which is the lesser of the two evils .. ? another thing ? is AF just a bulletin board for buy/sell to u all ? or watever u hv read and learn thus far, u will impart to those newbies who join recently ?

19-08-2004, 07:00 PM	#6
bsplenden Senior Dragon Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 3,362	it is hard to have a win-win situation in such cases. please do remember that all our moderators need to work too. at such, they cannot spend all their time online looking out for people who breaks the rules... it is up to us, people who make use of the forum, to actually follow the regulations. however, not everyone is just as considerate as many of our brothers here (i believe)... there are always a few people who breaks the rules (and that is the reason why there are rules). to discourage such people from posting irrelevant stuff for sale at the buy/sell forum, the moderators have to resort to such measures, as mentioned before, they are not available 24 hours a day to close such threads. hence, to help reduce their workload, they have to impose such restrictions. i do understand how you feel when you are "punished" for things that you did not commit at all, but think of the forum as a community, for a tolerance of 50 posts, you will be bringing the rest of the members a lot of convenience. furthermore, when you have got 50 posts, you too will see less of nonsense threads, while having the priviledge of using this forum and its buy/sell section. meanwhile, you can post the things you have for sale at your signature. i am sure many bros and sis here DO read the signature, cos u do hear comments like "I like your signature" and stuff like that. i am sure that you too, will like to eradicate the problem of irrelevant postings, and that you, a sincere fish hobbyist, will gain your 50 posts soon. think about it, 50 posts is actually easy to gain, just by contributing your knowledge to any of the forums (and there are so many of them).

19-08-2004, 07:19 PM	#8
aromatix Dragon Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,330	Bro John, I appreciate the intricate line you and yr team have to take. And I know there's no simple blanket solution for all. Maybe I did not communicate my definition of a marketplace well enough. I don't just mean buy/sell/exchange when I say free-wheeling but also free-wheeling of ideas, views, critiques, etc etc From my own experience, the freest markets are also those with the least restrictions (once again I dun mean commercials transactions only). eg 1 the USA which speaks for itself (its world hegemony is another issue) eg 2 China - the power that be realise that as their country opens up, they need to lift restrictions. I can see China becoming a free market if this trend continues. While the examples I give may not seem relevant, think about it deeper. Think BIG. This is what your arofanatics.com has become in case you've not realised it yet. Good work

19-08-2004, 07:31 PM	#9
bsplenden Senior Dragon Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 3,362	hmm... why not think of it this way... this is a forum. we are given a place to share our interest, and yet we don't pay a single cent. this, is a priviledge. so we cannot take the buy/sell forum for granted. so if people want to use it, first contribute to our fish keeping community by posting 50 posts, and you get the added bonus of using the buy/sell forum. fair isn't it??? just like you want to set up a stall to sell your things, you have to first pay the rent. (AND DO NOTE THAT ILLEGAL HAWKERS ARE NOT ALLOWED... )

19-08-2004, 08:04 PM	#10
yvonne Guest Posts: n/a	the admins would have anticipated all the difficulties everytime they administer new rulings to the forums, as such, this case is also the same,thus i believe they would have come up wif a solution prior to making such decision. imo, it'll be unfair for the admins and their team if we members do not appreciate their hard-work. i believe despite all unhappiness amonst new members who wishes to buy/sell or trade here, it's indeed a good move to have such ruling against LFS or any traders who come in guise of hobbyists & start to treat AF as a marketplace, using it as a platform only to sell their stuff. all in all, i'll like to appauld the admin for doing such a good job in maintaining this forum as the best fish-keeping forum.

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