XBacks - about golden head, crossing, shine, colour intensity

this is one of the threads here that i have enjoyed most, and most importantly, learnt a lot about selection criteria of xb, esp. from bro fong and vic... when both of you wanna go 328 to lim kopi? remember to call me, ya?

Originally Posted by vic

its normal lah....we argue like this very often...but he is still my good bro...I consider him one of the few good friend I can count on although he is communist

[vic]

Originally Posted by fong

I just need one answer from you. Did you consider the fifth level crossing then as a indication that it is most likely a cross back and not a high back disguise as cross back? Just yes or no answer. .

That answer goes back to where the XB is breed, who is importing, what age the aro is at the point of judging, how is the fish kept since young. U cant just get a yes or no answer here. Its like many hobbyist asking me if my red will turn red or not...theres no yes and no answer here unless u are judging an adult aro that about 5-6 yr old (thats my timeframe). Even so there are red that turns red at the age of 10 yrs old too.

If we take Ingot as an example....I will say, the farm she is from, the reputation of her importer, the way the fish is kept, current age, size and the way she looks when young. I will say I consider her 99% XB...that will cross with time.

Originally Posted by fong

I didnt say that your cross back low crossing right? Just say some one reject its bro and disappointed with it. Honesty, I don't think the color is fantastic although young time very nice but yours has nice shape. The reason why I post it is to show your colour theory not my crossing theory.

Frankly I dont consider her low crossing at her present age...I am quite happy having 5th level full at her size and age, I think its quite normal at her young age.

Different ppl got different expectation, I can't make everyone like my fish (including u)...there are bros out there who thinks its nice and then of cuz there are ppl who dont like this type of full gold.... In indo my fish will not be of value...cuz there the ppl like blue based with thin frame.

I oready knew she will be a full gold when I bought her...i have always mentioned this.

What colour theory?? Can u elabrorate further?

[fong]

You quote "U must understand that u are pointing out an adult XB in the pic.
" I was referring to the small fish with a batch of gold on the head lah. Not the adult fish. Since when did I refer to the 2nd Pic showing an adult aro? Read properly can or not?

You quote "For me when I buy a XB I assume its a XB that will cross with time. The same principle in buying red, I assume my red will turn red." Where got this type of rational one? If like that why go all the way overseas to buy red since all red will turn red ? Now like from talking xbacks to reds liao. But reds you are king... dare not argue with you.

Originally Posted by vic

I think only u think that "golden head" is uncommon...I can get u one just below 2K region at about 6-7 inches but how do u know if the "golden lines" on the head will spread as the XB grow bigger or not? U must understand that u are pointing out an adult XB in the pic.

I think before we argue further we must clarify ur stand...it seems to me u are more concern with the purity of the XB as a breed issue, therefore u put more emphasis on whether the fish will cross or not. For me when I buy a XB I assume its a XB that will cross with time. The same principle in buying red, I assume my red will turn red.

when u buy ur XB how do u know if they will cross or not?? The point I am trying to make is that there is no way u will know if ur XB is "pure" breed or not. Not unless u are a breeder urself or u have seen the parent. The key word is "pure"....how pure is pure to u then? Does a XB that cross slowly then is considered unpure to u then?? What happen if u see the parent XB only hitting 6th level but did not cross fully?? Its unpure?? Like I mentioned before u are hitting the extreme corner.

The only way to fulfill ur expectation is only to buy adult fully crossed XB..cuz theres no way u can tell 6-7 inch young fish if they will cross or not.

[vic]

Originally Posted by fong

You quote "U must understand that u are pointing out an adult XB in the pic.
" I was referring to the small fish with a batch of gold on the head lah. Not the adult fish. Since when did I refer to the 2nd Pic showing an adult aro? Read properly can or not?

So u are saying a XB like this is rare then?? Its the preception u have I have no commend....for me it doesn't prove that the golden patch will still be there when the aro grows up and that it justify for me to pay a premium for it.

Originally Posted by fong

You quote "For me when I buy a XB I assume its a XB that will cross with time. The same principle in buying red, I assume my red will turn red." Where got this type of rational one? If like that why go all the way overseas to buy red since all red will turn red ? Now like from talking xbacks to reds liao. But reds you are king... dare not argue with you.

U mean when u buy ur XB u dont assume yours are all pure breed and will ultimately crossed then?? How did u choose ur XB when they are 6-7 inches? Share with us?

And pls dun twist my word....I mentioned "I assume my red will turn red" and not "since all red will turn red" I am talking about my fishes I choose. Read carefully.

And dun play dumb....U know what I am talking about...ur double hump so call FFL "XB" is a good example. In short u cant tell if the XB u buy will cross or not...u already assume its a real XB at the point of purchase rite U assume ur FFL is a XB at the point of purchase rite?? U cant tell rite? Its a leap of faith. Remember what I said that time? I mentioned u either picked up a damn good deal or u kenna conned. Post some pic leh....lets hear what the brothers here think. Let us know where she is from too. **evil grin**

[fong]

You quote "In short u cant tell if the XB u buy will cross or not...u already assume its a real XB at the point of purchase rite U assume ur FFL is a XB at the point of purchase rite?? U cant tell rite? Its a leap of faith."

I fully agreed to this. This is what my experience tell me. This happens to me before and this is what I trying so hard to convince you and the hobblyists here. About your theory that " when you buy a xback you assume it will cross theory" has no meaning. If it doesn't cross, is not a cross back so what if the certificate said so.

Think I have enuff discussion. I'm engineering trained. I go by facts and figures. I've presented facts before your eyes. If my experience can be of any help to the bros here.. then this is not a wasted discussion.

Originally Posted by vic

So u are saying a XB like this is rare then?? Its the preception u have I have no commend....for me it doesn't prove that the golden patch will still be there when the aro grows up and that it justify for me to pay a premium for it.





U mean when u buy ur XB u dont assume yours are all pure breed and will ultimately crossed then?? How did u choose ur XB when they are 6-7 inches? Share with us?

And pls dun twist my word....I mentioned "I assume my red will turn red" and not "since all red will turn red" I am talking about my fishes I choose. Read carefully.

And dun play dumb....U know what I am talking about...ur double hump so call FFL "XB" is a good example. In short u cant tell if the XB u buy will cross or not...u already assume its a real XB at the point of purchase rite U assume ur FFL is a XB at the point of purchase rite?? U cant tell rite? Its a leap of faith. Remember what I said that time? I mentioned u either picked up a damn good deal or u kenna conned. Post some pic leh....lets hear what the brothers here think. Let us know where she is from too. **evil grin**

[williamt]

Originally Posted by fong

You quote "In short u cant tell if the XB u buy will cross or not...u already assume its a real XB at the point of purchase rite U assume ur FFL is a XB at the point of purchase rite?? U cant tell rite? Its a leap of faith."

I fully agreed to this. This is what my experience tell me. This happens to me before and this is what I trying so hard to convince you and the hobblyists here. About your theory that " when you buy a xback you assume it will cross theory" has no meaning. If it doesn't cross, is not a cross back so what if the certificate said so.

Think I have enuff discussion. I'm engineering trained. I go by facts and figures. I've presented facts before your eyes. If my experience can be of any help to the bros here.. then this is not a wasted discussion.

Last night was having my dinner outside and happen to go to a LFS, saw 2 pcs of 13" that only cross 4th level, 5th level can't see anything much and no pearls at all, ask the owner what fish is that, the answer is xback back. Wah pianz, I turn and walk out of the shop.

[vic]

Originally Posted by fong

You quote "In short u cant tell if the XB u buy will cross or not...u already assume its a real XB at the point of purchase rite U assume ur FFL is a XB at the point of purchase rite?? U cant tell rite? Its a leap of faith."

I fully agreed to this. This is what my experience tell me. This happens to me before and this is what I trying so hard to convince you and the hobblyists here. About your theory that " when you buy a xback you assume it will cross theory" has no meaning. If it doesn't cross, is not a cross back so what if the certificate said so.

Think I have enuff discussion. I'm engineering trained. I go by facts and figures. I've presented facts before your eyes. If my experience can be of any help to the bros here.. then this is not a wasted discussion.

Aiyah...so u have doubt if the XB u bought are real stuff or not??

Dun be so extreme lah, be more democratic lah...if u buy a XB at 9-10 inches and the bugger shows some nice pearl development, good shine, good gold tone and 5th level development...have some faith...I think most hobbyist will safely assume its a XB. Unless the bugger from backyard breeder lah.

If according to ur extreme method...then not alot of XB can be found in the mkt u know....most are juzt high bk until they all crossed....even ur comm tank too.

[vic]

I dun think this thread is wasted discussion....

It explained and clarified alot of gimmick that was used to mkt XB nowadays...basically its the same product that has undergone a nicer repackage and tagged at a higher selling price. Like Starbucks' coffee...still coffee what.

Its still willing buyer and seller outside...there will still be ppl willing to fork out unbeliveable figure for a fish that others will not even look at. It can also be considered the fun part of this hobby.